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I'm starting to re-examine one of my other assumptions in my moral code. That being, that if you tell a lie, you can live with yourself as long as it's so ridiculously transparent that anyone who believes it is obviously just playing along. I figured this was how it worked when any husband gave any wife any excuse for going to the nudie bar. And it's no doubt the motivation behind the polite answers to "what do you like in a member of the opposite sex?"

It also implies that all that new age stuff they do in Sedona is all kosher, because everyone knows that the shamans aren't even one-eighth Native American, that there's no such thing as a vortex, and so forth. So if someone wants to charge thousands of dollars to communicate telepathically with the ghosts of dinosaurs, and someone pays them, then they're all playing a harmless game.

Change the city to Las Vegas, and change dinosaur seance to Blackjack.

Mortgage crisis? Blame the people who bought houses they couldn't afford.

But I learned today that President Bush has no intention of retiring to his Crawford "ranch", and in fact only bought it in 1999, and I was genuinely, if mildly, surprised. I knew the Texas thing was an act; I think on some level everyone did. But nobody ever questioned the Crawford thing, even if some of us made fun of the brush-clearing.

Last Spring I had a crush on someone. I hadn't had a real date in a long time, so I thought to myself, and told my trusted friends, that all I wanted was to invite her to my apartment to watch some DVDs. She's just a friend; she's made it ultra-clear to me, so it's not like I'm expecting anything. I'll admit, it might help my confidence a little bit if the evening went well, without any major faux pas, then I'll be able to invite a woman over for a real date someday. And if she happens to come over on a day when I'm cooking something really impressive, well, that's just being friendly. And she doesn't need to know that this evening perfectly matches the template under which I got into a woman's pants for the first time. But, to prove my intentions are pure, I'll sit on the couch and she can pick whether to join me on the big fluffy EKTORP couch or sit on the more-comfy-than-it-looks POÄNG armchair. That's the ticket.

So I invited, and she declined. And I think I now realize why I feared rejection. Being turned down doesn't mean that she didn't like me the whole time, and I just discovered the truth. Rather, it meant that she lost respect for me. She didn't call me out on it privately, but information wants to be free, and we had friends in common, who I noticed lost respect for me.

The one who lies always bears the moral fault. People shouldn't lie.

I suppose if I were truly an honest person, the next time I'm talking to a woman and notice my IQ start to drop, I should tell her immediately that my IQ has started to drop. And if it doesn't pass, then I should tell her that she's too pick-an-adjective for me to be just friends with, and that if I've failed to make her feel the same way about me by that point, then I never will, because I'm now tainted with intent.

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There *is* such a thing as being too honest. Unfortunately, the only way to tell if you are being too honest is via experience.

Well ... I've always known that going up to a woman that caught my eye and saying "Hi, I'm Atilla and I'd love to bonk you into a coma" would never work. I didn't have to try to find that out.

Likewise, I knew that "I'm Atilla, and I decided to hit on you because you radiate intelligence that stimulates my interest" would blow out every metaphorical vacuum tube in a woman's bullshit detector.

Yeah, but the last one might work, 'cause it might make em laugh and be amazed that you can use big words. :D

be amazed that you can use big words

Hey, I'm not a drummer, you know!

It is possible to adapt the second one into a workable line. The problem with that is it might be recognized by an astute woman as a pre-packaged line.

One of the most effective things I've ever found is commenting on a book someone is reading or a piece of jewelry. I have a real eye for jewelry, so that usually opens up a good talk. Of course, these days, it's actually all just interest in the jewelry and some conversation!

Another conclusion I've reached, in addition to why rejection by a non-stranger is so dangerous, is about the cost of approaching. It's not that I don't know what to say or talk about, though sometimes it's that too. But, primarily, I know that any chips I put in the pot are bound to be lost.

If I see someone and don't approach, I forget about it in five minutes. If I see someone and do approach, and nothing comes of it, I forget about it in an hour. If I see someone, and talk to her for a while, and she seems nice, I think about her for a day or two. If I see someone, and talk to her for a while, and we get along and I'm really into her... well, I've been lucky, and that hasn't happened since the summer. You may have read about it. (http://pentomino.livejournal.com/1261086.html) So I think you're both right, honesty can be a bit too brutal.

Not that that was the last woman I've mingled with, of course. I met one on OKCupid who came in from Tucson to meet me for a couple of days in October. I showed her downtown Tempe, I made some food, and we played some video games. We got along great, gave each other backrubs, but I just wasn't attracted to her, so we didn't go further. So she crashed on the couch, and the next morning, we played some video games the next morning and fed the ducks. I'm a little proud of myself for having gotten someone to come over, but for once I feel like I've disappointed her, the same way out-of-town women I've flown to have disappointed me. You know how online dating can go.

That's well-thought-out.
(I don't have any actual advice, since I suck at this stuff.)

Well, I think the idea is that I trip all kinds of bullshit detectors already. And I'm not even really talking about the approach, but rather that point when I've been talking to her for a while, maybe even known her for a few weeks and hadn't noticed her before, but then I start to feel the urge to scheme. That's when things really go pear-shaped.

Here's the cure: Talk less. Ask and listen more.

I wish someone would've told me this when I was 15. Then again, I probably wouldn't have believed it.

Exactly. The problem here is that people feel a certain way and think they need to say or do something about it. We need to just learn to keep our mouths shut and only do something when we genuinely want to.
People in general can also tell when there's an ulterior motive and it really doesn't matter what that motive is, when someone's not forthright with us it makes us uneasy and lose trust in them. If it's transparent enough and something they know we aren't interested in, they're simply trying to trick us into, then it's only natural to think we'd lose a little respect for them.

"Here's the cure: Talk less. Ask and listen more."

OMG OMG for the love of God yes.

And don't think about meeting women as though it's an episode of Wild Kingdom, where you choose the gazelle and then move in on it... :-)

Heh, heh ... ain't that part about the gazelle the truth? Yes, it is.

I've also mentioned to our mutual friend, I believe, that dating isn't like playing Pac-Man where you score enough points and get an extra life (or, in the case of dating, get to have sex).

I know you've been telling me my entire mental model of how courtship works is wrong, and I've been having trouble replacing it with anything better, even as I see the damage.

Admitting when I can't talk to someone anymore because I'm about to stop acting like a human being, that seems like the only honorable thing. If I could instead simply continue to act like a human being, I'd do that instead.

Being true to myself would have to come before I can really be honest with anyone else, anyhow.

And that also makes it imperative to win my battle with my depression, because there's certainly a difference between telling someone "I'm attracted to you, therefore you should run away fast", and telling someone "I'm attracted to you, so you should pounce on me before I change my mind." Or is there? Whatever. That's miles away.

Well, there's a huge difference, and neither one is more appropriate than the other.

I've noticed that you seem to have a hard time having ongoing conversations with people -- focusing on just the conversation, or the interaction, and not being distracted either by something shiny, or something else that you're thinking about.

Listening, internalizing, and reacting to what you hear is the key. Paying attention. Acting like you want to be involved in the interaction/conversation. I've noticed in lots of situations, you choose not to do that, whether it's on chat in IRC, or voice chat on WoW...you lose interest in a conversation or a topic or a thread because it's not what you want to think about at that very moment, or it's not what you expect, or it's not what you'd planned, so you remove yourself from listening, and taking others' advice, and playing along, as well.

It makes the whole "connection" thing a lot harder. It's like, I WANT to have a conversation with you, and go back and forth with what you want to talk about and what I want to talk about, or whatever, but you have a movie in your mind about what's supposed to happen, or what you want to happen, and if it conflicts with what's actually happening, or what someone suggests should happen, you turn to the movie instead of the reality, and ignore the interaction completely. Or something, I don't know.

I say this only in the hope that knowing will help, but if not, I'll just shut up.

well, I have ADD medication. I wonder if it's still working. I might get it adjusted this month.

I noticed that when I was on a different ADD medication in college, my social skills magically improved. Perhaps it was because I was actually tuned in. This one, however, isn't doing that.

But that explains only part of my dicketry. Where did I develop my shitty dating skills? I can't medicate my way out of that, but if I can at least concentrate on the moment, maybe I can practice my way out of it.

Have you ever been distracted by your need to concentrate, though? I can remember talking to someone, or trying to do work, and not being able to concentrate, and the loudest voice in my head is just screaming "WHY CAN'T YOU FUCKING CONCENTRATE ON THIS? JUST LOOK FORWARD AND LOOK AT WHAT'S GOING ON IN FRONT OF YOU. WHY AREN'T YOU INTERNALIZING THIS?"

Edited 2009-01-16 15:05 (UTC)

I think the actual moral of this story should be for you to learn to drop the game-playing.
Be easy with yourself enough to not have ulterior motives and learn to keep your mouth shut.
Until you know the person better, the reasons you think they're so damned cool are all in your head anyway (that is, if you're thinking anything other than, "She's hot").
I don't know why all these single guys I know feel this burning urge to say something completely stupid, like confessing great attraction or undying love for a person they're really only infatuated with and barely know. If that's all you have to say, you need to zip it, man.
Do you talk like that with your friends??
I think not.
I'd forget the whole last paragraph of your post if I were you and just realize that chatter belongs in the very back of your brain, never to leave your lips.
Wait til you have something better to say or have some connection with the person you want to talk to and know that you're okay if that never happens (and you should be, cause if you're not okay with yourself, you aren't going to be okay in a relationship-- I know, I've pushed it).

Well, we all know game-playing is bad.

And, it's really not about who I'm talking to. It's about my inability to do what's right. And, if you're right and I'm not going to be okay in a relationship anyway, then that also makes it imperative that I eject as soon as I find myself in a relationship-seeking mindset.

I know a lot of this sounds negative, but really, it's not. Once many of my friends learn how this all works they actually feel freed and uplifted.
I'm not really sure 'relationship-seeking' ever really works. I know as we leave high school and college and go out in the real world a lot of us suddenly feel pressure to be in a relationship and maybe start a family, because that's 'what people do', but for some reason it seems as long as a person is actively pursuing seeking a relationship, they never find one. At least not a good one. It seems like all the good ones come by accident. They start off as friends and then one day something just clicks and the whole thing changes or they meet through some weird circumstance and BAM, love at first sight kinda thing. But none of that can be controlled, it's something you just have to be able to roll with.
Just keep telling yourself, being friends with someone is never a bad thing, no matter how much you think you might want a different kind of relationship and then who knows. Maybe as the friendship progresses you realise you really aren't compatible with her anyway and the romantic desire goes away or the relationship turns into something else. A lot of people don't let themselves get that far in a relationship; they don't build deep friendships and start all kinds of bs romantic relationships early, based on the most superficial crap.
That's really what I mean by being okay with yourself. You've got to not be desperate to have a relationship, okay with being on your own. Other stuff, like self image (which you might have been thinking) helps too, but I've got a LOUSY self image and have managed a few relationships (the current one I've been in for ages and probably isn't going anywhere).

That would be great if I were at least good at friendship.

Granted, I might be more likely to behave honestly around men than around women, but I'm still just as likely to zone out, or otherwise not fulfill my duties as a friend.

Just look at how my friends list has shrank since last year.

Seems to me though, as I've read you over the past year or so, that you worry too much and it leaves you feeling overwhelmed, so your mind is cluttered and you're not as present, not doing everything you could. Which is not to say you should try harder... in fact, just the opposite. I think you need to relax. The less overwhelmed and more focused you are, the more on point you'll be.

That's the paradox that defines my life. I try too hard, they say. As opposed to what, I ask?

But I wonder, does that mean canceling my epic voyage into central Phoenix was a step in the right direction?

I'd like to know that one step I made was in the right direction. I can never tell.

Just take whatever steps you really feel are necessary and don't worry about the rest. Do what you think is right and the rest will take care of itself.

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